Gavin Bowers has had a hand in some fantastic music over the past few years, both as a member of bands such as Palm, Elephant, Never Never Man and Waxx and behind the control desk as producer for Floral Image and Toast on his own Catch 21 Records imprint.
This month he released a new solo track ‘Our Flame’, backed by a dystopian video directed by long term collaborator, Leon Frank Dee. With a new album also on the horizon, Gavin got together for a conversation with Joyzine contributor John Clay, which you can read below
John Clay: My first reaction to the lyrics is that you see friendships like an artistic collaboration and that you feel let down that someone hasn’t been working towards the same vision of that friendship. How long have you seen things in this way?
Gavin Bowers: I think in truth I’ve probably always felt that way, I think managing expectations in any relationship is something that I’ve tried to get a handle on over the years. I feel the best way to get to know anybody is through their art so viewing your friendship as an artistic collaboration was unavoidable for me.
JC: Art can be incredibly indicative of what a person is like. That being said, there’s quite a few artists who contradict their public personas or philosophies, right? Joss Whedon, Rolf Harris, John Lennon spring to mind. With cases like that as our focus, was there a specific event where your expectations were not met which led to the creation of ‘Our Flame’?
GB: I think for me being romantically involved with someone I was making music with was what led to the song, and yes, you can definitely tell a lot about a person from their art and how they go about it.
JC: Sounds like you’ve been through a very complicated betrayal. Is ‘Our Flame’ a good indication of what the rest of the album will be like thematically?
GB: Yeah, it definitely follows that vibe, I had a lot to work through and this album became my way to do it.
JC: You told RGM magazine that you started work on your new material during your ‘downtime’ from your band. Now that you’ve tasted the fruits of working alone will you be doing so again periodically? Take us through the various pros and cons of solo production work.
GB: Yeah, I really enjoyed having a bit of time to just craft something. Most of the album was made in my kitchen so a big pro was having no time constraints and being close to the coffee! When it comes to cons I’d say it was really hard to know when it was bed time. I’d like to add to that by saying it’s a wildly different experience from working with the band (Palm). I definitely missed making music with the guys as freeing as it was to work at my own pace.
JC: When you say ‘it was really hard to know when it was bed time’, I take it to mean that keeping your sense of objectivity became a focus. Any practical tips on avoiding self-indulgence for other musicians out there, or is that too generalised a question? Perhaps apply that question to your future self as he approaches solo album Mach II.
GB: It’s very easy to be self-indulgent when creating any art, I think and to a certain extent it should be but, staying on task and being objective was something I really had to work at. There were several songs that didn’t make it on to the album because they were too personal, too revealing or – indeed – to self-indulgent. I guess the advice I would give my future self or anyone endeavouring to make something this personal would be to have clear goals about what you want to make. The way that you make it and the way it comes out I don’t think is really up to you. Having some downtime in between sessions really helps one to focus.
JC: What’s your opinion on discussing the specific nature of the relationship breakdown that led to the inception of ‘Our Flame’? Is the song a vehicle to hide your personal circumstances within or do you see merit in allowing us in? How tinted are the vehicle’s windows, so to speak?
GB: As with a lot of songs on the album, I’m open to discussing their inception. ‘Our Flame’ in particular was conceived during a period of my life where I was going through a lot of change and I had grown close to somebody that it turns out I shouldn’t have. My expectations of them and their intentions were very much at odds with the reality of the situation and what I ultimately meant to them. In the heat of the moment it was very easy to put someone new on a pedestal and it was equally as easy to get extremely burnt when I realised what was actually happening and I’d served my purpose. There have been big lessons to be learned and lots of process which is exactly what this record is processing.
JC: Glad to hear you’re open about your experience. What specific expectations did you have of the ex-partner in question?
GB: I guess just following through on things both personally and professionally, accountability works both ways. That being said I’m well aware that I should have also adjusted my expectations.
JC: Before we move on to discuss the musical aspects of ‘Our Flame’, can you give one specific example, or, as I inferred earlier, is the song a vehicle to hide your personal circumstances within?
GB: I don’t think there’s anything hidden in the song at all. The lyrics are very self-explanatory and there were many times in the relationship when mixed signals would lead to arguments and disappointment. It’s all there for the listener should they choose to listen to it, but I’m not about spoon-feeding anyone – the details are in the music.
JC: I really like the lyrics to the track and this opening one got me thinking:
‘I’m looking through all the pieces on the cutting room floor.’
What are your thoughts on the age-old dilemma of assigning yourself as editor of an event between two people? There’s always a chance that our personal bias can leave out vital information that favours the other person, or, embellish painful acts due to unprocessed trauma. Songwriting in the age of mindfulness arguably demands more consideration from the artist, yes?
GB: Yeah, you’re totally right and that’s a very good question… I think you can know yourself but not necessarily ever truly know another person but art is allowed to be subjective and I think it’s what makes it beautiful. Also, I’m writing from my perspective but somebody else might have a completely different perspective of what those lyrics mean.
I’m always trying to be mindful and fair in my representations of past events. It’s also easy to put people on a pedestal. I think it’s harder to look at a situation objectively, good or bad.
JC: Let’s take a closer look at the music itself. You’ve got a background in rockier, heavier stuff but have made a gradual and seamless slide into the world of pop music. Can you pinpoint why this happened and what it says about your current sensibilities?
GB: Yeah, happy to take a look at the music, I think you’re right that historically I have always played heavier stuff and leaned toward a very psychedelic direction. And my band Palm still very much fits in with that. I did want to do something that was more about the melody and more about just doing what I feel I guess and at the moment this record says a lot about where my head’s at, both sonically and lyrically.
I’ve never viewed pop as a dirty word as there are a lot of bands and artists that I really love and admire that have their feet firmly planted in that world.
JC: Melodically it’s quite a busy track, especially around the chorus. Do you find it easier to make editorial decisions when working in a group or do you think of yourself as a maximalist anyway?
GB: Melodically, I think about stuff that is going to fill a sonic space I wouldn’t say that I’m a maximalist at all but I do like to fill the space with interesting melodies and counter melodies. There are parts, especially in the second verse where it strips back to purely a kick drum and piano chords. I feel that it’s more impactful when everything comes back in. So there is definitely room for a bit of space as well.
JC: I’ve referred to your music as pop music, however, that’s just my interpretation. Perhaps ‘Our Flame’ is best categorised as synthwave? It would be great to know how you classify it and if you could tell me more about what the genre means to you?
GB: I think if say it’s lo-fi bedroom pop maybe, I like that genre because I think it feels identifiable and obtainable to anybody who’s making music.
JC: That’s quite a bold claim! Anyone making music? Please tell me more.
GB: Not especially, I just favour a lot of those tones and I think for anyone starting out making music that likes lo-fi or pop it’s very easy to make something that feels like it stacks up well.
JC: OK, fair point. That burst of saxophone at the end is a highlight. Did you play it yourself and was that idea there from the start?
GB: Originally the song finished after the second chorus but a good friend of mine who plays drums on the album suggested a sax solo at the end and being a massive Bowie fan I jumped at the idea. But I knew I wanted something different so I actually sampled three different sax solos and made something out of them shifting the key and adding some saturation and a bit of slap delay.
JC: Lovely to hear how the music developed beyond the initial concept and songwriting sessions. The right studio personnel or invitees can reveal so many unexpected paths, can’t it? Before we come to a close, can you tell me how the ethos of the record label has evolved over time since its relocation from London to Norwich?
GB: I really like bouncing ideas off the people that come through the studio. It adds more flavour and usually results in something that tastes better.
It’s been a long road from London to Norwich but I think at the core the idea of an independent label for musicians by musicians is still at the heart of what we do. I’d say we are definitely a bit more open to working with different genres, as originally it was very psych focused and we still love that sound and that world, but nowadays if I like it I’ll put it out.
JC: Thanks Gavin. It’s good to hear that your idea of what Catch 21 Records should release has evolved along with your tastes. The sensibilities of the past can end up being shackles to the artists we become if we let them, right? To wrap up, do you have any tips for creating and sustaining a work life balance between family duty, the record label and doing your own music?
GB: Thank you for taking the time out to talk to me, John. Absolutely, I completely agree every artist or creative in general should evolve and reflect the things that are currently happening in the world. Art of all kinds is a great way to communicate, especially in a world where we are struggling to listen to others.
We should all be evolving and striving to become the best versions of ourselves that we can be – or at least the most honest. With that in mind, I try very hard to have a good work life balance; my family and my children of course come first. Now they’re a bit older, it’s easier to explain to them what I do.
It’s so important to take time out for creative pursuits and try to leave a positive footprint for your family to follow later on, should they want to know what you were about? I think that’s why I do what I do.
Trigger warning: video contains themes of suicide
Gavin Bowers: Instagram | Video directed by Leon Frank Dee
Catch 21 Records: Instagram
Palm: Instagram
Interview by John Clay: Instagram
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